Difference between revisions of "User talk:Dieudo"

Revision as of 00:32, 18 October 2006

Translation

Godfrey asked me to to put in line a translation procedure for this page :

• Guidelines for Teaching NVC

CopyLeft

Dieudo wrote:

So here is my request : that nvcworld project is based free software under GPL license, as Wikipedia and Ubuntu (for example).

I strongly support this request in general, because I find that free open source software is congruent with my understanding of NVC. Particularly that it can be freely shared by CNVC with groups and individuals doing NVC work everywhere. Also that the development process is transparent. Another aspect I like is that we would not be dependent on one company or consultant. I also like that the documents created by such software are generally easier to share with people around the world. I have been working to promote more use of open source software by CNVC. At the same time I'm aware that some people may have needs not met by open source and I want to be sure everyone's needs can be met. So I feel cautiously optimistic that we can have a shift toward more open source.

As you've probably seen in the CNVC IT page here on NVCwiki, we are exploring the use of open source Drupal and CivicSpace for a new CNVC platform. I'm not aware of any CNVC investment in NVCworld at this time, and I don't know if that is open source. My impression is that CNVC will soon be basing most of the IT system on open source applications. --John Wiley

When I see a "copyright" on a document, it reminds me of the protection of a merchandise. A nice dead merchandise.

Are you sad that CNVC is using a process that you believe is in conflict with life? Are you curious what needs might be met by choosing copyright protection?

My impression from what others have said is that CNVC is trying to find diverse sources of continued income so that Marshall can reduce his exhausting travel schedule. One strategy is to increase revenues from material sales, and there is some concern that only copyright can protect this income source.

I'm wondering if one strategy might be for someone (you, for example) to create some pamphlets, recordings and books, and offer them for sale with the copyleft protection you envision. If that were to generate some income, my guess is that other products might be added to the list marketed in this way.

Thanks for sharing your passion about this. I hope some day we might meet.

warmly,

John

Copyleft CNVC

John wrote :

Are you sad that CNVC is using a process that you believe is in conflict with life?

Indeed. (I feel joyfull, now, to be understood  :-)

Are you curious what needs might be met by choosing copyright protection?

I guess the needs you pointed out are the ones the traditionnal copyright strategy is trying to meet.

I'm wondering if one strategy might be for someone (you, for example) to create some pamphlets, recordings and books, and offer them for sale with the copyleft protection you envision. If that were to generate some income, my guess is that other products might be added to the list marketed in this way.

With some friends in Bordeaux, France, we made a DVD out of Marshall's conference there.

• 

  The main menu

• 

  Scenes 1-6

• 

  Scenes 7-12

• 

  Scenes 13-18

• 

  Scenes 19-24

• 

  Bonus [fr] & [en]

• 

  Bonus : Marshall's biography, etc...

• ...

And we began (June 2005) a negociation with Anne Bourrit, Godfrey Spencer and Gary Baran, about how we could use BitTorrent technology make it worldwide available. You can have an example how it could look like on theses websites :

• http://chomskytorrents.org/
• http://www.ubuntu.com/download

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3d/Torrentcomp_small.gif

So far this question remains to me : how not to see such initiative as rival to Pierre Piront's one without a global approach such as Ubunt's community ?

with my confidence,

Dieudonné

Board Proposal

If you'd like to write up a sentence or two about this as a proposal to the CNVC Board, I will submit it for consideration as a potential future agenda item. -JW

I'm going to ask Godfrey's help to formulate it in way it might be understood ;-) --Dieudonné 09:46, 27 May 2006 (CEST)

Godfrey seems to be busy at the moment. Maybe you can help me ? Well... here is the main idea : we grew up in an economy mainly based on selling and buying. And we allmost forgot that when we give something, we offer not only the present, but also an opportunity to have the reciever being much more creative when feeling recognition for the present he just recieved. He can still give money, but maybe he has something more precious to give ! So this being the main idea, I would like us to imagine how NVC would be enriched by a CNVC telling to the world : « we would like to build up an encyclopedia about this empathy-type of communication, and because it's something universal, made of humankind, we would like every human being to be allowed to enrich this encyclopedia. And therefore we plan to build up a website alike Wikipedia, based on free contributions. And because we wouldn't like anyone or any group to say "this belongs only to me/us", this new economy is based on copyleft :-) » Does this proposal answers, more or less, your question ? Would you adapt it to your context ? --D

I don't have the time to research and write this. I'm wondering if you'd be willing to wait for Godfrey or someone else to collaborate with you on it, or to work on it yourself until you have the clarity you'd like in a couple of sentences. That would meet my needs for clarity and ease, and I'm hoping it would also meet your needs for having this issue considered by the Board.

I like the concept of sharing NVC freely and distributing it widely, so for me the question of copyleft for CNVC materials has to do with how it would affect revenues vs. promulgation of NVC. Since a major use of funds by CNVC is in NVC promotion and training, widely available free tools might meet those needs. At the same time, in-person training seems to have great value and material sales could help to support that. I'm not clear on how much revenue could be generated with a copyleft policy, and I'm guessing that could be a key question to address. -JW

I've changed my request on my user page. Would that fit for the kind of Board Porposal you imagined ? -D

I'm glad you're interested in making this proposal, because it's something I too would like the Board to consider. I'm noticing though, that the proposal you linked to above is just links to lots of detailed policies implemented by other organizations. I'm concerned that Board members might not have the time to do this much research. I'm guessing that it would be very difficult for you to write two sentences that could describe even your feelings and needs around this, much less convey to Board members how it would work. Is that correct?

Would you be willing to write (or collaborate with others to write) two sentences or less that describe what you'd like to propose and what needs of yours would be met? Those sentences could link to longer descripions, and those could contain links to further outside references. Rather than mix this in with the older material you've already posted, I'm guessing it might have more impact if you created a new page just for this topic. I'm hoping you'll be willing to do this, because I'm guessing that a concise description of needs and your copyleft strategy will be very helpful for engaging the Board in this discussion. -J

Ok, I'll try here : Board Proposal: copyleft attitude -D

Allready enriched by user:John Abbe ! Does it answer your request ? --Dieudonné 20:21, 24 June 2006 (CEST)

July Proposal on Board Agenda

I'm so appreciating your willingness to keep working on this. I've added it as a proposal for discussion on the upcoming draft Board agenda.

Jori Manske has emailed me the following, which I understand is the current CNVC policy. I'm wondering what about this you'd like to see changed.

--John 20:53, 9 July 2006

It sounds pretty close to what I dreamed of 4 years ago Actually I'm presently at a 3 days meeting of the French Association for NVC (ACNV) Board, and it is a great booster for me to feel in contact with your evolutions through our Agendas in this wiki !

Does your understanding of the Open source / copyrights below makes it possible to set the DVD (mentionned on this page, with Jori Manske's copyrights) available through BitTorrent ?

--Dieudonné 08:06, 15 July 2006 (CEST)

My understanding of the copyright notice Jori shared is that it makes specific requests as to how NVC materials are used. I'm feeling frustrated in reading your question because I'd so much prefer that you ask this question of Marshall (whose work you're apparently wanting to share via copyleft) and Jori (who's charged with the task of monitoring the use of CNVC copyrighted materials). I'm not clear whether the specific material you want to share via bittorrent is covered by copyright, nor am I clear whether your requested use would comply with that copyright. I have three main interests in this discussion with you:

• 1. To get more clear on the interface between CNVC and the NVC community, by better understanding your initial request for consideration of CNVC adopting copyleft protection instead of the current copyright. I now have a greater sense of clarity and connection with you via our dialog and I'm happy about that.
• 2. To help the CNVC office to know about your request. I'm reading Jori's response as an indication of such awareness.
• 3. To bring to the GCC any questions about copyright/left that remain unclear in your dialog with CNVC. In your question above I'm reading that you'd like a "ruling" from me, and aside from having the impression that my opinion would be only that I'm concerned about placing myself in the middle of a conversation I understand as between you and Jori (and possibly Marshall).

So in reading your question I'm feeling frustrated because there's nothing further I have to contribute that's congruent with my needs for clarity and connection. Would you be willing to contact Jori directly with your question, and share with me via email (cnvc.org) anything further you'd like to say to or request of me? I hope your question(s) will be answered to your satisfaction, and I appreciate your desire to help spread NVC in the world. warmly -JW

Thank you John for this answer. The reason why I choose to talk to you is because you are the one within the CNVC with who I feel the better understood :-)

At the moment the best support you are giving to me is by prouving to the french association ACNV, how using a wiki can be pretty efficient.

Actually it's true I still dream to find an agreement with the CNVC to spread the DVD through BitTorrent technology and a copyleft protection. So please consider this DVD as a gift, and please help me making it become a gift for all human beings interested in it ;-) Warmly --Dieudonné 23:50, 17 October 2006 (CEST)

I'm so glad I noticed your new post here! I've had lots of trouble lately in tracking new posts due to my not wanting to get notices of changes to pages here, and spam. Both these factors are related, in that the spam makes getting change notices not viable for me. To me this is a major problem with using wiki for communication, and I'm hoping for a solution because I so appreciate many other features of this medium.

I'm also glad you're sensing that I understand your dreams about copyleft. I haven't read the material about that or other open source agreements for some time now, and it's all a bit foggy in my memory. What I'm still quite clear about is our shared desire for NVC materials and media to be widely available, and free if possible. In another attempt to bring the topic of media and copyright/left before the GCC, I've added it to the Conference agenda for next week. I hope you might follow that and perhaps contact Jori, Marshall and other GCC members to express your feelings and needs around this. Thanks for your consistent efforts to contribute to our mission of promoting NVC. hugs -j

Open source / copyrights

All of the material is available for public use. It can be downloaded, reprinted, and distributed freely. Our simple request is that you continue to put our name and copyrights on any material distributed and to give us credit for any quotes or the use of any ideas. We also request that in any printout you include our website address and our request for contributions that follows.

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